Thank you for the perspective. My daughter-in-law who is Peruvian said to me that many of her friends (which includes many from Latin America and Asia) were complaining that they had not been 'colonised' by the British. She told me that the consensus was that the Spanish were rubbish (only interested in plundering and the French only interested in dominating and exploiting); whereas the British created infrastructure and government and good schools and brought the railway. A view we don't hear.
Thank you for taking the time to make these points and show clearly the differences. Because you are the first that I've read, it appears as though leftists are not capable of making these same comparisons, it doesn't fit their narrative .... that's all they have ... a narrative, no facts or truth can enter.
My daughter has a Zimbabwean partner (his father went to Rhodesia when he was 2 and his mother was born there). His father fought against what he calls The Marxists (which we call Robert Mugabe and Friends). He fought with black Rhodesians against black Rhodesians. He lost but he wasn't fighting black Africans - he was fighting the Communists. There are two black tribes in Zimmy and they are still killing each other in horrific and brutal ways (the white population is ignored). The white population was what made Rhodesia a stunning success. The Mugabe Marxists destroyed it.
I used to have penfriends. Some of them were from African countries. All of them were quite sure that the best place to live would be England "because the English aren't racist" (they mostly came from French or Belgian former colonies!).
If the English are such terrible people why does the whole of the 3rd world want to come and live here? If we imposed ourselves so wickedly, why did they keep the railways, laws, education we provided?
A mere handful of Brits ran the whole of the Indian sub-continent. Why weren't they simply overwhelmed if they were so horrible? The majority of the residents of Empire countries clearly accepted the benefits that Empire provided - swings and roundabouts, as they say. The descendants of those people can always leave the UK and go back to their ancestral homes. Good luck with going to Zimmy (where there is no real currency, no banks, no real internet connections or airline access or electricity).
Ian Smith was shamefully betrayed by Britain's political establishment and condemned a thriving civilised Rhodesia to a Marxist murderer who destroyed it.
"Which is to say nothing of the difference between going somewhere and building something better, and going somewhere and simply destroying what was there. By that judgement, too, in most cases colonialism was far more morally justified than modern mass immigration and the betrayal of once peaceful, successful and harmonious nation states with defined borders."
Addin'--tho' relatively small in number an' oft treated with disdain (or "woise") da joos have always attempted to "build sumthin' better" / to add not subtract. I'm kinda shocked how many peepull in the USA know only "Epstein the Monster" or "Nuland the Neocon" an' have no idea that it's not the Muzzies that have given them the American Songbook, the "best" of the Golden Age of Hollywood, their "All-American" Comics, their "funnymen" (even Mary Tyler Moore & Jackie Gleason had jooish writers & directors). When folks call out "Nobel Prizes" (which now mean squat but once meant sumthin') the average American is not affected so they could care less 'bout Carl Sagan an' others in the stratosphere.... BUT much of what is heralded as our "culcha" comes much closer ta home. (I'll not list the giants-literary nor the professors-grand nor others higher up on the food chain like ahrtists, archtects, composers--Gershwin! Bernstein! Copeland! Berlin! etc)..... but suffice it ta way "ve joos" are generally STILL reVILED an' folks jus' love the peas-full Muzzies (Ed Said--the famously destructive intellectual--is the only one that cums ta mind besides...er Louis Farrakhan?)
Bottom line...."Zey come with bombs/knives/Lil' Red Books--ve come with skills/goods/violins/pianas an' "too many books to carry!" DAILY I read 'bout how evil we all are an' how "real Amuricans" want us gone..... I jus' don't git it....
OH, an' I'd say India's the poifect eggzample of what Brits (colonialists indeed) contributed... an' I understand they tried ta also ban burnin' wives on funeral pyres too! (ain't that sumthin' to celebrate?)
Good points. And yes, I’m strongly in favour of Britain’s Jews as a minority who integrate, contribute and build. I don’t even blame them for Ed Miliband. 😂 seriously, though, Jewish contribution to nations they are in is immense. The exact opposite of some other demographics.
lol I had ta look up Miliband (Net Zero?! Oy that wuz enuf fer me)-- an' thanks fer the props re contributions... bein' a performer I'm keen on many who've graced the British stages & screens (a list far too long fer here) but even among directors there are quite a few notables! (the first four that that "foller" here were surprises even ta me but of course many changed names to avoid bias...) sharin' a select list here among mah own fave-o-rites... sadly few folks don't know this stuff :-(
Mike Leigh, Stephen Frears, Stephen Fry (okay more of an actor than a director but still!), john schlesinger, steven berkoff, richard lester (dual american-british citizen), tom stoppard, malcolm mclaren, jonathan miller, peter brook, lionel bart, alexander korda, an' emeric pressberger
I couldn't fer the life of me make a list of muslim contributors in the same areas....an' yet, da joos have this undeserved rep of (as I'm told) contributin' NOTHIN' ta culcha' or society--of jus' bein' greedy bankers & money-lenders....(I jus' drop mah jaw to the floor when I hear this :-( )
lol, that was referrin' ta mah com-mint (bein' the Chief Crackpot in the com-mints section ;-) I do write in the vernacular kinda like Al Capp whose work I admire muchly!
In Thomas Sowell’s book, Race & Politics, he told how when Brits were discovering parts of Asia they would come across small groups of Chinese starting to build, when they came back there would be a thriving community. The next time they would be wiped out. They started posting divisions whenever they spotted them to protect the community. They said they never saw any other people building that fast.The Chinese were industrious but very easy to kill. The British civilized much of the world we know now. Destroying it returns Europe to barbarism
The left will always find a way to justify anything they want. Replacing an existing culture with a 7th century nomad culture works for them and no one else. When the UK and France and Germany are Muslim nations, the indigenous people will have no one to blame but themselves for the disaster.
It's time Western Europe woke up, replaced their leftist globalist governments and started protecting themselves and their heritage. Otherwise they're done for.
Getting what you ask for isn't always the best outcome...
I think most Americans tend to not know how little we asked for it. In the UK for 80 years every manifesto from every party has promised reduced immigration. We have never voted for more immigration, let alone mass immigration, as a majority. Not once. Our modern mass immigration has been delivered exactly the same way that it was delivered to the US under Biden.
Thank you for the enlightenment. More's the pity that your leaders betrayed you the same as ours did us. You need someone who will reverse the globalist trend. Is that Nigel Farage? I hope the UK finds its way out of this politician-made disaster.
Brits were pretty ruthless. But..that was the world at that time. I can’t say they were nice guys. But no one really was. Certainly not indigenous peoples anywhere.
Strength is never something to be ashamed of, if it’s joined by civilisation. The British Empire was the most justly administered and most positive in history. Over 400 years of global power is going to include dark episodes, but for the majority? A huge force for good.
I don’t disagree. The Roman/Latin empire was similar. It brought education and medicine to many places. Also it was ruthless. But likely somewhat less barbaric than the norm at the time.
The Marines when formed…I have read…were formed specifically to neutralize the Barbary pirates. They went from pirate village to pirate village and burned them to the ground until the Islamic pirates learned to leave US ships alone. I am sure they didn’t drop leaflets first warning families.
Civilizations die from suicide, not murder per Toynbee. There is minimal innovation in Britain today, mostly exploitation of treasures from the now defunct empire.
Historically the British Empire has serious moral failures, in particular the Opium wars in China. Not a very distinguished history.
The opium wars were instigated by British merchants and British government trade officials. Prosecuted by Imperial Navy and Army forces from Britain and India. Hong Kong was a concession in the Treaty of Nanking. I have no doubt that London bankers were deeply involved, but the British government was the source of the troops who fought the wars. Nothing about this was legal, or ethical.
I have no shame regarding the opium wars, nor should anyone. They were trading a legal product traded by others at the same time, then had trade missions attacked and responded. Opium was in common usage before the British traded it, and it was legal in Britain itself at the time of the opium wars. It was also legal in the US.
Thank you for the perspective. My daughter-in-law who is Peruvian said to me that many of her friends (which includes many from Latin America and Asia) were complaining that they had not been 'colonised' by the British. She told me that the consensus was that the Spanish were rubbish (only interested in plundering and the French only interested in dominating and exploiting); whereas the British created infrastructure and government and good schools and brought the railway. A view we don't hear.
That’s very interesting. It’s nice to hear that perspective.
Thank you for taking the time to make these points and show clearly the differences. Because you are the first that I've read, it appears as though leftists are not capable of making these same comparisons, it doesn't fit their narrative .... that's all they have ... a narrative, no facts or truth can enter.
Yup!
My daughter has a Zimbabwean partner (his father went to Rhodesia when he was 2 and his mother was born there). His father fought against what he calls The Marxists (which we call Robert Mugabe and Friends). He fought with black Rhodesians against black Rhodesians. He lost but he wasn't fighting black Africans - he was fighting the Communists. There are two black tribes in Zimmy and they are still killing each other in horrific and brutal ways (the white population is ignored). The white population was what made Rhodesia a stunning success. The Mugabe Marxists destroyed it.
I used to have penfriends. Some of them were from African countries. All of them were quite sure that the best place to live would be England "because the English aren't racist" (they mostly came from French or Belgian former colonies!).
If the English are such terrible people why does the whole of the 3rd world want to come and live here? If we imposed ourselves so wickedly, why did they keep the railways, laws, education we provided?
A mere handful of Brits ran the whole of the Indian sub-continent. Why weren't they simply overwhelmed if they were so horrible? The majority of the residents of Empire countries clearly accepted the benefits that Empire provided - swings and roundabouts, as they say. The descendants of those people can always leave the UK and go back to their ancestral homes. Good luck with going to Zimmy (where there is no real currency, no banks, no real internet connections or airline access or electricity).
Ian Smith was shamefully betrayed by Britain's political establishment and condemned a thriving civilised Rhodesia to a Marxist murderer who destroyed it.
Very true. That’s the era in which British Conservatism submitted entirely to leftwing positions.
Excellent questions, and ones that leftists can never ask or answer.
Only one thing to add - a message for Comrade Starmer: FUCK HAMAS!
If only clear sense made as much difference.
couldn't agree more with what'cha say here:
"Which is to say nothing of the difference between going somewhere and building something better, and going somewhere and simply destroying what was there. By that judgement, too, in most cases colonialism was far more morally justified than modern mass immigration and the betrayal of once peaceful, successful and harmonious nation states with defined borders."
Addin'--tho' relatively small in number an' oft treated with disdain (or "woise") da joos have always attempted to "build sumthin' better" / to add not subtract. I'm kinda shocked how many peepull in the USA know only "Epstein the Monster" or "Nuland the Neocon" an' have no idea that it's not the Muzzies that have given them the American Songbook, the "best" of the Golden Age of Hollywood, their "All-American" Comics, their "funnymen" (even Mary Tyler Moore & Jackie Gleason had jooish writers & directors). When folks call out "Nobel Prizes" (which now mean squat but once meant sumthin') the average American is not affected so they could care less 'bout Carl Sagan an' others in the stratosphere.... BUT much of what is heralded as our "culcha" comes much closer ta home. (I'll not list the giants-literary nor the professors-grand nor others higher up on the food chain like ahrtists, archtects, composers--Gershwin! Bernstein! Copeland! Berlin! etc)..... but suffice it ta way "ve joos" are generally STILL reVILED an' folks jus' love the peas-full Muzzies (Ed Said--the famously destructive intellectual--is the only one that cums ta mind besides...er Louis Farrakhan?)
Bottom line...."Zey come with bombs/knives/Lil' Red Books--ve come with skills/goods/violins/pianas an' "too many books to carry!" DAILY I read 'bout how evil we all are an' how "real Amuricans" want us gone..... I jus' don't git it....
OH, an' I'd say India's the poifect eggzample of what Brits (colonialists indeed) contributed... an' I understand they tried ta also ban burnin' wives on funeral pyres too! (ain't that sumthin' to celebrate?)
Good points. And yes, I’m strongly in favour of Britain’s Jews as a minority who integrate, contribute and build. I don’t even blame them for Ed Miliband. 😂 seriously, though, Jewish contribution to nations they are in is immense. The exact opposite of some other demographics.
lol I had ta look up Miliband (Net Zero?! Oy that wuz enuf fer me)-- an' thanks fer the props re contributions... bein' a performer I'm keen on many who've graced the British stages & screens (a list far too long fer here) but even among directors there are quite a few notables! (the first four that that "foller" here were surprises even ta me but of course many changed names to avoid bias...) sharin' a select list here among mah own fave-o-rites... sadly few folks don't know this stuff :-(
Mike Leigh, Stephen Frears, Stephen Fry (okay more of an actor than a director but still!), john schlesinger, steven berkoff, richard lester (dual american-british citizen), tom stoppard, malcolm mclaren, jonathan miller, peter brook, lionel bart, alexander korda, an' emeric pressberger
I couldn't fer the life of me make a list of muslim contributors in the same areas....an' yet, da joos have this undeserved rep of (as I'm told) contributin' NOTHIN' ta culcha' or society--of jus' bein' greedy bankers & money-lenders....(I jus' drop mah jaw to the floor when I hear this :-( )
Love this piece. It must have taken you quite a while to write it in such a crackpot style
Thanks….I think….crackpot? 🤔
lol, that was referrin' ta mah com-mint (bein' the Chief Crackpot in the com-mints section ;-) I do write in the vernacular kinda like Al Capp whose work I admire muchly!
In Thomas Sowell’s book, Race & Politics, he told how when Brits were discovering parts of Asia they would come across small groups of Chinese starting to build, when they came back there would be a thriving community. The next time they would be wiped out. They started posting divisions whenever they spotted them to protect the community. They said they never saw any other people building that fast.The Chinese were industrious but very easy to kill. The British civilized much of the world we know now. Destroying it returns Europe to barbarism
"Trevor Noah standup.” LOL. He’s not funny. He’s just a self-righteous woketard. TBH I’d almost forgotten he even existed until I saw this post.
The left will always find a way to justify anything they want. Replacing an existing culture with a 7th century nomad culture works for them and no one else. When the UK and France and Germany are Muslim nations, the indigenous people will have no one to blame but themselves for the disaster.
It's time Western Europe woke up, replaced their leftist globalist governments and started protecting themselves and their heritage. Otherwise they're done for.
Getting what you ask for isn't always the best outcome...
I think most Americans tend to not know how little we asked for it. In the UK for 80 years every manifesto from every party has promised reduced immigration. We have never voted for more immigration, let alone mass immigration, as a majority. Not once. Our modern mass immigration has been delivered exactly the same way that it was delivered to the US under Biden.
Thank you for the enlightenment. More's the pity that your leaders betrayed you the same as ours did us. You need someone who will reverse the globalist trend. Is that Nigel Farage? I hope the UK finds its way out of this politician-made disaster.
Brits were pretty ruthless. But..that was the world at that time. I can’t say they were nice guys. But no one really was. Certainly not indigenous peoples anywhere.
Strength is never something to be ashamed of, if it’s joined by civilisation. The British Empire was the most justly administered and most positive in history. Over 400 years of global power is going to include dark episodes, but for the majority? A huge force for good.
I don’t disagree. The Roman/Latin empire was similar. It brought education and medicine to many places. Also it was ruthless. But likely somewhat less barbaric than the norm at the time.
The Marines when formed…I have read…were formed specifically to neutralize the Barbary pirates. They went from pirate village to pirate village and burned them to the ground until the Islamic pirates learned to leave US ships alone. I am sure they didn’t drop leaflets first warning families.
How true. thank you for your wise perspective.
Yes. Seems unstoppable, indeed.
https://unbekoming.substack.com/p/what-the-nash-equilibrium-teaches
Civilizations die from suicide, not murder per Toynbee. There is minimal innovation in Britain today, mostly exploitation of treasures from the now defunct empire.
Historically the British Empire has serious moral failures, in particular the Opium wars in China. Not a very distinguished history.
In my reading the Opium Wars were instigated and run by the English bankers, whereas something like Hong Kong was built on the back of English Law.
The opium wars were instigated by British merchants and British government trade officials. Prosecuted by Imperial Navy and Army forces from Britain and India. Hong Kong was a concession in the Treaty of Nanking. I have no doubt that London bankers were deeply involved, but the British government was the source of the troops who fought the wars. Nothing about this was legal, or ethical.
I have no shame regarding the opium wars, nor should anyone. They were trading a legal product traded by others at the same time, then had trade missions attacked and responded. Opium was in common usage before the British traded it, and it was legal in Britain itself at the time of the opium wars. It was also legal in the US.
True.
Noddy Holder?
No, Chris.